Special Thanks goes out to Llamas Galore today for posting a link to a dialect survey conducted by Harvard. I'm eternally grateful, because for me, it's scientific confirmation of what I've tried to tell people for years, ever since I got to St. Louis: Pronoucing bag as "beg" is indeed a Wisconsin thing and not just me. Thank you. Now don't get me started on bubblers.

I have now officially seen it all.

Well, the results from last week's picks are in: 8-6, not great but not horrible, however, my upset special of the week once again came in as Atlanta beat the Saints at home. I should get bonus points for this kind of thing. I could easily rest on my laurels and pick favorites the rest of the way, but you, my readers deserve more. And Chris still gets a chance to beat me one of these weeks, provided that he doesn't take the Lions as an upset pick ever again. Don't give up, Tiger...

I got an incoming search today for "homer simpson xxx picture" . I'm ashamed to be a member of the same species that wrote this.

I almost forgot to make picks this week because the Pack has a bye. It's just doesn't feel like an NFL weekend for me. Anyway, I did somehow remember, so here we go.

PIT at BAL. PIT. The Steelers don't have Jerome Bettis. The Ravens probably wont have Ray Lewis. That means a lower chance of criminal behavior in this game, but also lower chance that it will be remotely interesting to watch.

DET at BUF. BUF. Every time I think the Bills have their act together, they go and almost lose to someone like the Texans. For that reason I should pick Detroit, but I'm pretty sure they're even worse than the Texans. And yes, that means the Bears are even worse than Detroit and the Texans.

TB at CAR. TB. Why do the Bucs have such a cupcake schedule? It's ridiculous. They're gonna be 6-2 without a single quality win. Rrrrgggh...

TEN at CIN. TEN. The AFC North is so bad that the Titans will be back in the hunt after this week. Victories against the Bengals should not recognized by the league as wins.

SEA at DAL. DAL. I have never, ever, seen a worse group of linebackers than the Seahawks' current corps. Against the Rams last week, I'm pretty sure they were instructed to run away from Marshall Faulk at all times. And good golly, I hope Emmitt breaks the record this week so we can stop hearing about it. He's a good guy and all but enough is enough. It's just a number.

OAK at KC. KC. I can't see the combined score of this game being less than 80 points. The Chiefs have lost a few heartbreakers now, so it's time for them to win a couple heartbreakers. At this rate, Dick Vermiel will die soon.

CHI at MIN. CHI. This is a game that both teams clearly deserve to lose. The ViQueens are in an even greater state of disarray at the moment, so I'll go with the Bears, very reluctantly.

ATL at NO. ATL. The Saints are riding high after taking down the Niners. ATL seems to have just hit their stride. This has all the makings up a good, ol-fashioned letdown game.

CLE at NYJ. NYJ. You're picking the Jets? Huh? Really? I guess....

ARI at SF. SF. The Cards, who have no right to have the record that they do, come in to San Fran to play an angry Niners team trying to lock down first place in the division. This one doesn't take a genius.

HOU at JAX. JAX. Continuing the march to 1-15....enough said.....

DEN at NE. NE. New England has had a bye to think about the drubbing they've been taking the past month or so. If they can't manage to win this game, forget about the Super Bowl, the playoffs might be wishful thinking.

IND at WAS. IND. After getting a chance to watch Steve Spurrier last week, I can say, without any doubt, that he's an absolute knucklehead.

NYG at PHI. PHI. I was actually thinking about giving this one to the Giants but then Jeremy Shockey decided he needed to insult the philly secondary. Now, I too think the Eagles are overrated, but Jeremy, you just made things a lot less easy. And Brian Dawkins is going to hurt you.

If you've been a longtime reader of this website, you'll know that I'll occasionally do movie reviews from time to time. You might also know that I haven't done any in several months. This is because I haven't gone to any movies in the past several months. This is because there hasn't really been much worth seeing that's come out in the past several months. You know something's wrong when XXX is the big summer blockbuster. Yikes.

Anyway, I bring this up because I did see a movie this past weekend, although it's not exactly mainstream. It was playing in the arthouse-y theatre here in St. Louis and was suggested by one of my friends. It's called Spirited Away and is a japanses movie about a normal 10-or-so-year-old girl who somehow ends up involved with an unworldly bathhouse for spirits, and seems largely targeted towards children. If you're confused, you should be. I was. Its not really anime (as far as I can tell, with my very limited anime experience), but it is thouroughly japanese. For example, the bathhouse is run by an old woman who has a head the size of Cleveland, is escorted by three green disembodied heads who just bounce around and never say anything, and is the mother (?) of a 15-foot tall talking baby who at one point gets turned into a hamster-like creature by the old-woman's identical twin, who the little girl suddently starts calling "grandma" (the twin sister that is, not the baby or the other old woman, who the little girl also starts calling "grandma", but at a different point). Got it? Mabey I'm just missing some deep symbolic meaning, but if there is one, I'd sure like to hear it. However, I will say the experience of watching the movie was worth the price of the ticket in some unusual, semi-demented way. I must say I liked the style of the animation and some of the characters (e.g. A "radish spirit", which looks something like the offspring of a sumo wrestler and a tuberous vegetable). In general motif it's actually very similar to Harry Potter (or Alice in Wonderland, for that matter), athough I might like this movie more than those based on the "incredibly weird" factor. 3 stars.

However, If I was a kid watching this movie, I think I'd be permanently brain damaged.

You may or may not that there's a new link on the side of my page entitled "Rowing". Right now all I'll say about it is it might not stay up there very long unless Ben starts posting about things other than not posting....seriously, though, if you haven't already, go and check it out, especially if you like putting sticks in water.

In an NFL note, coach Moochie in San Fran says he's going to "aggressively rest" Terrell Owen's injured heel. What on earth does that mean?

Finally, I once again thumped Chris in football picks. I defeat personal picks, I defeat coin-toss picks, and I defeat computer picks. I doubt that I could defeat a gorillia. Or a rottweilier. Or Mike Tyson. Chris, I'm giving you ideas here.....

"Haley Joel Osmet is one of hottest kids around"
- Wolfgang Puck, middle-aged Austrian gourmet chef, proving that english is not his first language.

Ok here my the picks. Seeing that I'm going up against a computer program this week, things might be though, but I'll give it my best shot.

CAR at ATL: ATL. A Panthers team without Rodney Peete is like a Spamwich without Spam. Wait, no, that's a good thing.

CHI at DET: CHI. Man, I hate picking the bears. I'll need to cosole myself with the fact that each bears victory means lower draft picks.

SEA at STL: SEA. Both teams probably think this "must win" game. Someone needs to tell them they're about 4 weeks beyond "must win" territory. On a side note, unless Mark Bulger is from the same planet Kurt Warner is from, I don't think he'll have lasting success

BUF at MIA: MIA. The way the NFL works, the Bills are probably going to end up winning this, because they almost lost to the Texans last week, and the Dolphins won at Mile High . But I'll play the percentages anyway.

SF at NO: NO. To paraphrase Chris, Terrell Owens may be arrogant, he may be a jerk, and he may be a whiner, but....well, actually that's about it. I'm just not impressed by San Fran. Call me back when you beat someone who isn't horrible. It's like the old NFC west all over again.

MIN at NYJ: NYJ. J-E-T-S . Vikings really S-U-C-K.

TB at PHI: PHI. Chris would be smart to listen to his computer and not jump on the annual Bucs bandwagon. I feel like I've said this before, but Tampa Bay, call me back when you beat someone who isn't horrible.

DEN at KC: KC. I don't know about this one. A banged up Trent Green has me worried, but even the horrible KC teams of the past few years played well at home against divison rivals.

JAX at BAL: JAX. The Jags may have let me down last week, but that can chalked up to the fact that their quarterback was David Garrard, who I was lucky enough to watch in person earlier this year. All I can say is, if your quarterback can't throw the ball, you might as well just put Fred Taylor back there.

SD at OAK: OAK. Normally I'd take San Diego here, but there no way in heck Oakland will lose after falling victim to Bulgermania.

HOU at CLE: CLE. Continuing the march to 1-15, as I've said before....

WAS at GB: GB. No real explanation needed here......Good ol' coach Steve yanked up-and-coming WR Rod Gardner out of the lineup and replaced him with old Florida standby Chris Doering, who ran a 4.9 40 coming out of college. There are linemen who run faster than that.

DAL at AZ: AZ. I don't mind when Quincy Carter and the rest of the 'boys play just well enought to win, because that means Jerry Jones won't bring in new guys who could potentially actually be good.

IND at PIT: PIT. The Bus is back, and boy do I need it, because he's on my fantasy team. I really have no other justification for this pick, sorry.

You might have noticed that I have a quote from Kenneth Boulding on the top of my page. Now, a lot of people don't know who Kenneth Boulding is. I am one of them. However, I do have a picture of him.


And anyone that looks like Ken here absolutely has a right to being on my site.

a little ostracism never hurt anybody
-Lisa,
my occasionally confusing girlfriend

Note:My infrequency of posts is due to the fact that it's currently midterm season. Things will get better after Thursday.

Ok, so I was 10-4 last week in my picks, bringing me up to 64-24, while Chris's coin flip routine resulted in just-short 9-5, leaving him at 52-36. Thank you, Olindo Mare. As of last week, my combined record was far better than any of ESPN's 8 supposed football pundits. And don't feel bad, Chris, as of last week you were were still doing better than Mark Malone, and yes, even the resident genius Joe (legs aren't supposed to bend that way" Thiesman. Congrats.

Chris is using a coin flip for his picks this week, but I brought in a monkey to throw darts at big matchup board, so I think things will go well for me. Normally I would have doubts about the authenticity of Chris's routine, but I must say that I'm taking his word for it after he picked the Bengals and Rams.

PIT at CIN: PIT. The Bengals actually had a chance to win last week, but then John Kitna, realizing what might happen, did just what he needed to do and threw an interception. Order was restored to the world.

CAR at DAL: CAR. Poor Carolina, the past two weeks they've lost to good teams that they probably should have beaten. Luckily, they can return to their cupcake-stomping ways this week.

JAX at TEN: JAX. Jaxsonville came through in clutch last week, making my upset special a reality. I can't abandon them now, especially against the Titans, which continue to foil my picks week after week.

BAL at IND: IND. The Ravens without Ray Lewis are like The News without Huey Lewis, whatever the heck that means.

DET at MIN: MIN. If the Vikes can't win this game, they'll assume the dubious title of worst team in the NFC. I never thought I'd say it, but the NFC Norse looks like one of the weakest divisions in football right now.

GB at NE: GB. I'm even more worried about this game than the Carolina game. However, I'll drink a glass of Clamato before I pick against the Pack.

ATL at NYG: NYG. The Giants have managed to be up-and-down and consistently mediocre at the same time. That's hard to do. This week, they're due for one of their upswings (within the general bounds of mediocrity, of course).

NO at WAS: NO. It's amazing how many people think Patrick Ramsey is the answer after ONE WEEK. Rookie quarterbacks aren't successful. Just try to name one.

BUF at HOU: BUF. Expect Bledsoe to tear apart the Houston secondary, which may have the worst corps of safties on any team, ever.

KC at SD: SD. Like I said last week, San Diego was due for a letdown, and whadda know, it happened. Now that it's out of their system, they should be charged up (rim shot) and ready to go.

CLE at TB: TB. I hate picking Tampa Bay to win, because one could get the impression that I think they're good. Rest assured, I don't. I just think Cleveland sucks more.

OAK at STL: OAK. So now we've all seen how the Rams respond to adversity. They roll over and die.

MIA at DEN: MIA. Well, at least it's a better matchup than last week's sunday night game. Does Denver ever play in non-primetime game? Seems like a lot of exposure for a team that didn't make they playoffs last year. As for this game, the Dolphins probably still have a few weeks before they have their annual collapse.

SF at SEA: SF. The Seahawks are going to realize that beating up the Vikings is like beating up young punks in the mall. Sure it's fun and it makes you feel good about yourself, but it doesn't mean you're something special.

Irony Award of the Day: I recieved some spam for a product that is supposed to prevent pop-ups, claiming "They waste your time and often advertise things you ---and members of your family--- don't want to see". Does anyone see a conflict of interest here?

I've decided to post the rest of the Mike Shannon quotes, even though they are now officially stale material. Anyway, here they are:

> >"A hit up the middle right now would be like a nice ham
> >sandwich and a cold, frosty one."
> >
> >"This big standing room only crowd is settling into their seats."
> >
> >"It's raining like a Chinese fire drill!"
> >
> >After Brian Jordan was hit by a pitch for the 4th time on a single
> >road trip) "He must feel like a Ouija board."
> >
> >(About former Cardinal Bernard Gilkey) "He was originally born
> >in University City."
> >
> >"He's faster than a chicken being chased by Ronald McDonald!"
> >
> >(Referring to Mike Schmidt) "the longtime and soon-to-be Hall
> >of Famer."
> >
> >"He's madder than a pig caught under a barnyard gate."
> >
> >(About a base stealer) "Sometimes when you feel the urge,
> >you've just gotta go." (6/17/98)
> >
> >"This game is off to a rather conspicuous start, don't you think,
> >Jack? (7/15/98 )
> >
> >"Well, folks, this game began as a tiny worm and is blossoming
> >into a large cobra." (8/12/98 )
> >
> >About Hideo Nomo) "He's the biggest thing to hit Japan since
> >they dropped that bomb on Nagashima!"
> >
> >"That foul tip bounced up and caught him right in the groins...and
> >that'll really clear your eyes out!"
> >
> >Broadcasting from New York under a full moon) "I wish you
> >folks back in St. Louis could see this moon."
> >
> >On the day before Easter) "I just want to tell everyone Happy
> >Easter and Happy Hanukkah." (4/98 )
> >
> >After a warning track fly ball) "A couple of strips of bacon at
> >breakfast,and he'd a busted that baby outahere!"
> >
> >"Things are not always as they appear to be as." (1999 )
> >
> >"I tell you, that same river flows the same way".
> >
> >"Well, he did everything right to get ready for the throw, but if ya
> >ain't got the hose, the water just won't come out."
> >
> >"Like Spring makes the rains come, so does the edge of the
> >plate grow." (6/17/00)
> >
> >"Our next home stand follows this road trip." (5/20/01)
> >
> >"I don't like that play. I've seen it go opposite more often than
> >positive." (6/08/01)
> >
> >Referring to a home run by Ted Simmons) "And that's the bread
> >on Simmons' butter."
> >
> >"The right-hander is throwing up (instead of up throwing) in the
> >bullpen."
> >(4/23/02)
> >
> >"I've heard it said that if you know English, Spanish, Italian, and
> >I think it's French, you can go just about anywhere in this
> >world...except for China where they have all those derelicts."
> >(5/19/02) Regarding this year's quote regarding the derelicts in
> >China was followed (after a pause) by Joe Buck's suggestion
> >that Mike had meant to say "dialects." Mike's response
> >was,"Yea, dialects!! That's what I mean. But they've got a lot of
> >derelicts too!!"
> >
> >During an Eli Marrero at bat, Mike Shannon makes mention that
> >the Cardinals had a lot of Latin players on the team and that
> >"they are a creditable people."
> >
> >"If you're writing a thesis or something, you could finish it in a
> >week or so if you were catching this guy." (05-25-02)
> >
> >"We'd like to say hello to all those folks listening in Monkey's
> >Eyebrow, Kentucky."
> >
> >"He ran to second faster than a cat in Chinatown."
> >
> >"I wouldn't have seen it if I hadn't believed it.'"
> >
> >Joe: "Mike, the Cardinals would like to welcome a group of 19
> >French foreign exchange students in section 382 today."
> >Mike: "Where they from Joe?" Joe: "Uhhh... France... I think."
> >
> >And Mike Shannon's classic: "Ol' Abner has done it again!"
> >
> >A couple years back, Mike and Joe were discussing the horrible
> >photographs of players that had been flashed on the screen at
> >another ballpark. Mike's take on the quality of photo selection
> >was, "Some of those guys looked like the picture was taken
> >while they were seeing their first UFO." After several
> >seconds of laughter, Joe added, "As opposed to their
> >second or third."
> >
> >" Oooh, that last pitch inside was a bit questionable and he'd like
> >to say something to the umpire, but he won't say anything. At
> >least not verbally.".
> >
> >"Boy a frosty cold Budweiser would be great about now"...long
> >pause... then
> >an "aahhh"
> >
> >"The wind has switched 360 degrees".
> >
> >"The Dodgers are ahead by 5 runs or 3 runs or in between there
> >somewhere."
> >
> >"It was raining so hard I thought it was going to stop."
> >
> >"this crowd on their feet for the Canadian Star Spangled Banner."
> >
> >"Horner's arguing, he wants an interference all against Cangeloni.
> > Now Cangeloni's got something to say, but here comes Whitey
> >to give a taste of his vocabulary, and it'll have extra mustard on
> >it."

Special thanks to Nick for e-mailing me this list (which explains the funny formatting in case you're wondering).

On an unrelated note, since everyone has gone all Haiku-crazy, here's one I wrote several years ago in the context of an email discussion with one of my friends who found out that girl he liked was a big-time boozer (or something like that, I don't remember exactly).

A woman that drinks
Is like a woman that stinks.
Both unattractive.

Oh, there's hell to pay tonight!

You see, that sneaky, duplicitous Chris has gotten into the habit of posting material slightly before I can. In the past, Chris has complained about me doing the same thing, but this case is different. I was posting stuff that I had just happened to come across before he had. Chris is now posting things that I have sent to him.

It started a couple days ago, when Chris posted about growthmiracle.com, which I had sent to him via email as a jab at his vertically-challenged-ness and was planning on posting about later that night. Well, that evening I found out that he had already beaten me to the draw and had put it up on his site. I decided to let this one slide, considering he mentioned that the material was from me.

Then, the very next day, I sent him a collection of stupid sayings by Cards broadcaster Mike Shannon. Once again, I was planning on posting it that evening. Sure enough, less than an hour later, a quote from that very message was up on his site. Even worse, I wasn't mentioned at all.

This outrage will not stand. I demand vengence. Or at least monetary compensation.

And since I'm already ripping on The Chris Hill Festival: What's the deal with having the link to Mount Athos way the heck over on the right side of the page, to the point where it regularly spills in an ugly fashion onto the next line whenever the browser isn't maximized? For gosh sake, I was after Erv for at least a month. Someone who's whuppin' you in football picks (I'm currently +11 games) shouldn't have to be subjected to that.

Ok, a few important NFL notes:

Note 1: For all you Bears fans out there, this from ESPN's Marc Connolly:

...instead of searching for Bear excuses, the best way to describe Monday night's game, plain and simply, is this: one team ascended toward the league's upper echelon again, while the other continued its fall down into the NFC doldrums after lifting its head briefly last fall and getting the Chicago faithful excited...the Bears are starting to look like a team that has run out of magic and can no longer sneak up on anyone...

Couldn't have said it better myself.
HAHAHAHAHA

Note 2: Speaking of the bears ---- If you regularly visit this site, you know my feelings about Brian Urlacher, particularly in regard to how every announcer on earth kisses his butt. Every time the aforementioned player is on the field, regardless of whether or not he's actually doing something (and he usually isn't), the camera's always on him an the announcers are always talking about what an immaculate player he is (which he isn't). One time last night, Mr. Urlacher completely missed a straight-on tackle of Ahman Green, and then eventually got up and contributed to the tackle about 5 yards downfield when Green was tied up by some other players. Of course, the announcers praised Urlacher for "not giving up". It all reached a head when John Madden called Brian Urlacher "The Perfect Everything". I had to restrain myself from putting my foot through the TV. No wonder there are about a million dopes walking around in Urlacher jerseys. If you are one of those people, I'm sorry, but I hate you.

To be fair, the announcers were also constantly gushing about Brett Favre, but this is somewhat excusable considering Favre had an amazing 3-TD, 300+ yard first half and went over the career 40,000 yards milestone. Urlacher did JACK SQUAT. This is why we should watch football games on "Mute".

Note 3: Speaking of Favre ---- I found a delightful article about Doug Pederson, Favre's backup. Read it.

A few days ago Chris posted about his ideal job interview. I felt that, although his interview was indeed desirable, I had something slightly different in mind. It goes something like this.

Scene: Lucas sits at home, on the couch, eating Pizza Hut Meat Lover's pizza in a T-shirt and shorts. A man in a suit comes in the door.

Man in suit: Hi Lucas, do you want a job?

Lucas: Um, sure.

Man in suit (Opening a briefcase full of money): Here's lots of money. It's all legally obtained, of course. Are 20's and 50's OK for you?

Lucas: Sure. What do I have to do?

Man in suit: Well, if you need another briefcase full of money, call this number and I'll bring one.

Lucas: Ok, great.

Ok, its time for football picks again, so here we go:

TB at ATL: ATL Tampa Bay has been fooled into believing that they're good by beating the likes of Cincy, Baltimore, and yes, the Rams. Michael Vick on turf is just plain scary.

CIN at IND: IND Cincy is well on the way to being 0-16. Don't laugh, it's going to happen.

PIT at NO: NO Two words that strike fear into the heart of any defense...Tommy Maddox. Unfortunatly, the former XFL MVP can't pull this one off against a Saints team that must be absolutely seething from a loss to the Lions. The Lions!

KC at NY: KC After almost beating the defending champs, then actually beating the powerhouse Dolphins, the Chiefs are now officialy doing good. And, in accordance with my policy, I can now start picking them to win.

STL at SF: SF. The Rams have the same record as the Bengals. Enough said.

BAL at CLE: CLE. Is ESPN trying to get the crappiest game from each week? If they are, they're certainly doing a good job with it.

OAK at BUF: OAK. High potential for an old-fashioned shootout here. Drew Bledsoe can't throw 4 touchdowns every week, can he?

NYG at DAL: NYG. Wow, to think that this actually used to be a good matchup. I'll take the Giants to beat a Cowboys team that clearly thinks they're a lot better than they really are.

WAS at TEN: TEN. Somewhat obscured by the Rams' meltdown is the Titans' godawful start. They're too talented to keep losing, and they're playing against Danny Wuerfful, who was once scouted as "can't throw the ball through a wet paper towel"

NE at MIA: MIA. Two teams that have to be mad after getting beat by inferior teams last week. The Chargers ripped the Pats a new one last week with their running game, expect the Dolphins to do the same.

AZ at CAR: CAR. Those pesky, loveable, Panthers actually impressed me last week. The Cards have never, ever, impressed me, except in their amazing abilitiy to lose.

SD at DEN: SD. I'm told you Drew Brees would not be denied, but did you listen --- NOOOOOO. Seriously, this has big letdown potential for the Chargers, but I have to stick with the horse that's brought me this far.

PHI at JAX: JAX. I'm making this my upset special of the week. Note to Philly: If you want respect, you're going to have to do more than thump the Skins, Cowboys, and Texans.

GB at CHI: GB. Stick a fork in Mr. Urlacher, the Bears are done. Now that the magical spell that protected them has been broken, they're going to be exposed for what they are: a thouroughly mediocre team.

Now that my stats/hit counter service is working again, I've been amazed at the number of hits per day I'm getting, even though I don't think google has found my new address yet....It's easy to forget that other people are actually visiting your site when your hit counter isn't working, and I must admit that when I started this site I imagined that no one on earth would care. However, numbers don't lie, and a result of this, I'm feeling increased pressure to keep the frequency and quality of my posts high.

In other news, I've been happy as kid in a candy store for the past hour or so because I recently downloaded the new trailer for lord of the rings. Now I realize that this is an implied admittal of a certain degree of dorkdom, but let me quantify my degree of nerdishness: I like the books and have read them a few times. I am not the kind of fan who dresses up and goes to conventions and plays Dungeons & Dragons and sits in line for movies for several weeks before they open. And by the way, the former doesn't necessarily imply the later. Not that there's anything wrong with the latter type, if you happen to be one of those. Please don't come after me with your lightsaber.

I was going to post about frozen custard today but the topic has been preempted for more pressing material:

In response to my recent post about the stupidity of Coors, Chris recently discussed a different insipid commerical by "another beer company"...well, chris, guess what......that one is Coors, too. I can't fault you because Budweiser has a series of commercials that are almost as bad. On a related note, can we please stop assoicating beer with America and Patriotism? C'mon and salute our country by getting drunk. Jeez.

Also, the Southwest commercial where some dude chucks a pineapple at a supermarket cashier is the funniest thing on earth.

I find it impossible to not like any individual who can sing every line of Bohemian Rhapsody, including the lines that don't have lyrics.

Thanks to to the helpfulness of David at -273, the new statistics-gathering package is now working. All the information gathered is in the public domain, so if you're curious about who else is visiting this site simply go to athos.negative273.com/stats/. I'm an open book!

In case you're worrying about where the hit counter that used to be on the side of my page has gone, rest assured, I'm aware of the situation. I'm in the process of attempting to change hit counters to one provided by -273, because the old one sucked, but unfortunately the new one appears not to be working despite my best efforts. So don't fret, I'll get to the bottom this.......